Post by Sheila on May 1, 2024 15:38:34 GMT -5
It may seem funny that my first post under a board titled "Heaven and hell" is about neither of those places. However, it seemed like the best fit for this particular thread.
As a Christian, whether or not you're Catholic, you've probably heard people talking about a place called purgatory. Some people fully believe in it's existence, some refute the teaching, and others have no idea what any of it means. Hopefully, this thread can help explain things.
First, we need to know what is meant by purgatory and why people are said to go there when they die. The Catholic Answers web site states, "The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven, which is experienced by those who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified. It notes that this final purification of the elect . . . is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The purification is necessary because, as Scripture teaches, nothing unclean will enter the presence of God in heaven (Rev. 21:27) and, while we may die with our mortal sins forgiven, there can still be many impurities in us, specifically venial sins and the temporal punishment due to sins already forgiven." The New Advent web site states, "Purgatory (Lat., "purgare", to make clean, to purify) in accordance with Catholic teaching is a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are, not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions." A venial sin is a sin that is relatively slight or that is committed without full reflection or consent.
Maybe this explanation can be simplified. According to Catholic doctrine, no matter what we believe, even if we've accepted Jesus as our Savior because of his sacrificial death on the cross, there are sins or parts of sins that make us impure and that impurity must be cleansed somewhere before we can enter heaven. Examples of venial sins include abusive language, deliberate hatred, masturbation, and lying. It seems that the impurities that linger are due to sins that haven't been confessed to a priest and these are usually not confessed because the person has forgotten they've committed the sin or didn't realize it was a sin when they did something. It seems the actual deceased person doesn't have to do anything once there. Catholics believe that the living can pray, do penance, and perform good works on behalf of the deceased and those things will be credited to the soul in purgatory. With enough being done on their behalf, they're impurities are wiped away and they can then enter heaven.
How can anyone argue against the existence of purgatory with the Catholics providing Biblical proof for why it exists? Some people will simply say the word "purgatory" doesn't appear in the Bible. I won't use that argument because many other words used as the title for various doctrines many Christians accept aren't found in the Bible either. Words such as "trinity" can't be found in the Bible, but there are very few Christians who don't accept the doctrine of the Trinity. Instead, I'll rely on what the Bible does say and I believe only two verses are necessary even though many other verses reinforce the teaching within the two I'll quote.
"For it by grace you have been saved, through faith . . . not by works, so that no one can boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9). No one can be saved by anything they do. Not only can't a person save themselves through works, no one can save anyone else by doing works for them. Works done on behalf of another will also not help cleanse or purify a person after they die. Everyone is responsible and must pay the consequences for their choices they make during their lifetime. Death is a complete stop. Wherever you stand in the eyes of God will determine whether or not you go straight to heaven or hell. There is nothing within the Bible that says anything different.
If you feel that's a weak argument, this is should be strong enough. "For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy" (Hebrews 10:14). Some versions of the Bible use the word sanctified in place of the phrase "being made holy" and is probably a much better way to state things. "Sanctified" means to be freed from sin or purified. Jesus' death on the cross served as a sacrifice to wash away our sins. Notice the verse states that the sacrifice made us "perfect forever". While we'll never be perfect while walking through this world and we'll continue to sin in one way or another, God already sees us as perfect. From the second we accept Christ, we're being purified. If, when we die, we haven't been completely purified or leaving the world of sin behind us doesn't serve as the final purification, then it would seem that Jesus dying for our sins wasn't sufficient.
One more thing for you to think about. Jesus told the thief on the cross that he, the thief, would be in paradise that very day, not purgatory awaiting for someone to say enough prayers or doing enough good works for him to be purified enough to enter heaven. Was paradise a different place than heaven? That's a topic for another thread. If the thief didn't have to spend time in purgatory, why would we?
* All quotes are from the New International Version of the Bible.
As a Christian, whether or not you're Catholic, you've probably heard people talking about a place called purgatory. Some people fully believe in it's existence, some refute the teaching, and others have no idea what any of it means. Hopefully, this thread can help explain things.
First, we need to know what is meant by purgatory and why people are said to go there when they die. The Catholic Answers web site states, "The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven, which is experienced by those who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified. It notes that this final purification of the elect . . . is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The purification is necessary because, as Scripture teaches, nothing unclean will enter the presence of God in heaven (Rev. 21:27) and, while we may die with our mortal sins forgiven, there can still be many impurities in us, specifically venial sins and the temporal punishment due to sins already forgiven." The New Advent web site states, "Purgatory (Lat., "purgare", to make clean, to purify) in accordance with Catholic teaching is a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are, not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions." A venial sin is a sin that is relatively slight or that is committed without full reflection or consent.
Maybe this explanation can be simplified. According to Catholic doctrine, no matter what we believe, even if we've accepted Jesus as our Savior because of his sacrificial death on the cross, there are sins or parts of sins that make us impure and that impurity must be cleansed somewhere before we can enter heaven. Examples of venial sins include abusive language, deliberate hatred, masturbation, and lying. It seems that the impurities that linger are due to sins that haven't been confessed to a priest and these are usually not confessed because the person has forgotten they've committed the sin or didn't realize it was a sin when they did something. It seems the actual deceased person doesn't have to do anything once there. Catholics believe that the living can pray, do penance, and perform good works on behalf of the deceased and those things will be credited to the soul in purgatory. With enough being done on their behalf, they're impurities are wiped away and they can then enter heaven.
How can anyone argue against the existence of purgatory with the Catholics providing Biblical proof for why it exists? Some people will simply say the word "purgatory" doesn't appear in the Bible. I won't use that argument because many other words used as the title for various doctrines many Christians accept aren't found in the Bible either. Words such as "trinity" can't be found in the Bible, but there are very few Christians who don't accept the doctrine of the Trinity. Instead, I'll rely on what the Bible does say and I believe only two verses are necessary even though many other verses reinforce the teaching within the two I'll quote.
"For it by grace you have been saved, through faith . . . not by works, so that no one can boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9). No one can be saved by anything they do. Not only can't a person save themselves through works, no one can save anyone else by doing works for them. Works done on behalf of another will also not help cleanse or purify a person after they die. Everyone is responsible and must pay the consequences for their choices they make during their lifetime. Death is a complete stop. Wherever you stand in the eyes of God will determine whether or not you go straight to heaven or hell. There is nothing within the Bible that says anything different.
If you feel that's a weak argument, this is should be strong enough. "For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy" (Hebrews 10:14). Some versions of the Bible use the word sanctified in place of the phrase "being made holy" and is probably a much better way to state things. "Sanctified" means to be freed from sin or purified. Jesus' death on the cross served as a sacrifice to wash away our sins. Notice the verse states that the sacrifice made us "perfect forever". While we'll never be perfect while walking through this world and we'll continue to sin in one way or another, God already sees us as perfect. From the second we accept Christ, we're being purified. If, when we die, we haven't been completely purified or leaving the world of sin behind us doesn't serve as the final purification, then it would seem that Jesus dying for our sins wasn't sufficient.
One more thing for you to think about. Jesus told the thief on the cross that he, the thief, would be in paradise that very day, not purgatory awaiting for someone to say enough prayers or doing enough good works for him to be purified enough to enter heaven. Was paradise a different place than heaven? That's a topic for another thread. If the thief didn't have to spend time in purgatory, why would we?
* All quotes are from the New International Version of the Bible.
Copyright © 2024 by Sheila Rae Myers